15 replies to this topic

[Marek]

Hey,

 

as probably most of you experienced in the past (except admins of course), you get kicked if you teamkill 3 players and eventually you get temporarily banned, if you have been kicked twice already. Those, who don't use things like catapult, trebuchet, oil or baloon are not that much affected, because it's quite rare to teamkill players with arrows or melee weapons.

 

However after spending thousands of hours playing warband I am not so much interested in traditional combat style, but I enjoy operating siege machines as you all know. I try to give warning to my teammates everything I hit the oil pot or shoot with trebuchet on Minas Tirith, however some retards just don't care and they keep opening doors or even worse they walk into flames and they get often teamkilled by me.

 

Of course you could argue, that if I don't use those stuff, I don't get kicked, but siege weapons are very effective and in some maps they make ea difference between loss or victoriy. I imagine those setting were put in place to prevent trolls from teamkilling other teammates on purpose, but in the previous weeks there was almost all the time an admin, either playing or in spectators. Furthermore, there are so many ways how to report player (tavern, new topic, pm, discord, steam) so whoever would misuse those siege weapons, he wouldn't be playing on the server for too long.

 

Marek

 

TLDR: Disable auto-kicks and auto-bans as it ruins experience for some players. Or tell me you would consider my potential admin application, so I wouldn't be affected anymore.

[Aratar]

I see those auto-kicks as someone killing innocent teammates who gets an emotional trauma and decides to not go on with his life. Or it might be a disciplanary measure as an execution on the criminal for killing teammates.

 

Those auto-kicks grant satisfaction to the victims I suppose, several people have their death count increased by 1 involuntarily, it's only fair the one who does it loses his score aswell. For those who run in without heeding any warnings, I guess more warnings are required. Keeping them is better overall imo. Although we might consider to disable it when an admin is online and that admin has to turn it back on when he/she leaves.

 

I have another suggestion tho. When I used to join siege I always checked the kick counts and resetted them manually for those using siege equipments, after checking if they are doing a decent job or not ofc. This only works for auto-tempban's tho.

 

About the admin immunity for auto-kicks and bans, I don't think anyone uses it to their advantage. I personally am on a record with 8 teamkills on flag with a trebuchet and after that I never used siege engines when I joined in as an admin.

 

So it's a huge no to use admin powers as you suggested. Any application done for that reason would have a very low chance of acceptance.

[Marek]

I see those auto-kicks as someone killing innocent teammates who gets an emotional trauma and decides to not go on with his life. Or it might be a disciplanary measure as an execution on the criminal for killing teammates.

 

Those auto-kicks grant satisfaction to the victims I suppose, several people have their death count increased by 1 involuntarily, it's only fair the one who does it loses his score aswell. For those who run in without heeding any warnings, I guess more warnings are required. Keeping them is better overall imo. Although we might consider to disable it when an admin is online and that admin has to turn it back on when he/she leaves.

 

I have another suggestion tho. When I used to join siege I always checked the kick counts and resetted them manually for those using siege equipments, after checking if they are doing a decent job or not ofc. This only works for auto-tempban's tho.

 

About the admin immunity for auto-kicks and bans, I don't think anyone uses it to their advantage. I personally am on a record with 8 teamkills on flag with a trebuchet and after that I never used siege engines when I joined in as an admin.

 

So it's a huge no to use admin powers as you suggested. Any application done for that reason would have a very low chance of acceptance.

Thanks for quick reply. I see your point regarding a satisfaction for teamkiiled players by an accident, but what about those who get themselves teamkilled on purpose, what satisfaction is there for players who teamkilled them (running into flames, or deliberately waiting in a spot, when guy operating siege weapon is shooting). Projecting myself in the situation, I get my kill count lowered by one and I am closer to getting kicked or even banned in same cases or I get directly kicked because of that particular troll.

 

Sometimes I ask admins to be so kind to reset my tk count, but hardly ever i get a response or get my tk count reseted. From time to time, I see poll kicks getting disabled manully, so it might be also the option to disabled auto-kick as you suggested.

Yeah, I am not aware of any admin who use their immunity primarily to be protected from autokicks, but from time to time I am fed up, when Roamin (no offense) accidentally teamkills many players at once and he can still continue playing.

 

Regarding the admin application, don't get my wrong, I am not interested to get any powers over other players, especially with my not very clean sheet. But I stated it many times while playing, I all care about is not to get kicked, when I teamkill few players. For instance, it would be perfect, if you make one more tier of "admin rank", but without any powers. Player would just get an immunity from being auto-kicked. However it would require some changes to NeoGK mode, and I am not sure, there would be a still possibility to kick or even ban those players, who logged with this password. So this is not a right way probably.

[Joss]

Becoming admin just to avoid autokicks and autobans is very selfish.
autokicks and autobans aren't bad as there was several incidents when some player tried to bug me and steal my catapult, so i couldnt prepare proper throw distance and the guy tried to shoot enemy but hit team and got kicked for it, but on larger scale like in minas, its easy to get ban because people just walk into fires or run into fireline of launchers so some adjustments like disabling autobans when server population reaches 100+ sound rather acceptable

[Ayna]

Yea, its so exciting to kill teammates with siege weapons! Of course i know many ways to avoid getting autokicked while teamkilling, but with autokicks disabled it would be much easier to kill dozens or even hundreds of teammates and get more fun, so i support Marek.

But besides trolls, there are also noobs (like Marek ). When players learn to use siege weapons, they often aim inappropriate places like areas in front of gates, or flag when there are teammates. I feel satisfaction when they are kicked.

[Chivalrous_Roamin_Knight]

None taken, Marek. This Autokicking and Auto banning happens to many players and, like you, it is frustrating to them; even to me; yes, I can keep on playing, but I get disturbed when teamkills happen when I use the a siege weapon and even when I make teamkills; recently, I had a fire bolt flame jump that killed a teammate but killed the intended enemy as well; another incident, I was using the Javelin Arrows, they are a very powerful arrow; I teamkilled three; I took myself out of the map after that 3rd TK, putting myself in Spectator.

As far as Siege Weapon teamkills,this happens for many reasons as what I've seen or experienced: 1) Primary reason is we are getting new players on Siege everyday and so, they are not aware of such situations and in-turn have no knowledge of the Siege Weapons or even the server's NeoGK mod, in turn, self-teamkilling themselves, 2) Players accidently and aimlessly put themselves in the teamkill situation, 3) Players don't care how or if they get teamkilled in this manner; a teamkilled player gains Denars on their respawn, 4) An often used trolling tactic is to go purposely in those dangerous teamkilling situations; this that's done, is THE most difficult to look for as an admin (occasionally, I DO look for this happening, also as in trolls who open doors or leave doors open for the purpose of their own trolling satisfaction, 5) This next instance, are of those who purposely put themself in this situation to get a player Autokicked/Autobanned; I HAVE seen that situation and have banned in such instance. 6) THIS kind of goes-along with #4, whereas a player uses a Siege Weapon PURPOSELY to teamkill; Admin BuZz and I witnessed this and couldn't immediately make a determination if this was being done accidentally, as in a new player using a Siege Weapon, or maliciously, which after a bit more observation and dectective work by BuZz, we determined it was of a purpose to teamkill.

 

And as admins we may concur and discuss of whether or not for autokicks/autobans to be reconsidered as you suggest. Maybe it would be more responsible for me as an admin to, at various times make an admin annoucement of players to express caution in going to these places where a Siege Weapon's destination happens or IS happening. I make my own scripts advertising the mod and other scripts of what the mod offers, I can do this (They're my own texts I've macroed to my keyboard macro keys). As players, as I often say in chat of players complaining of how a Siege is going, I express to them: "Try giving instruction on what your teammates should possibly be doing rather than complaining." Me and Draco have already, when we 1st named our guild/clan, had purposes for that guild; one of these was ALWAYS warning teammates of the flag's status, as we more often than anyone, do; eventually, I've seen this get contagious. And YOU are very correct in stating, the use or non-use of the Siege Weapon is very detrimental in the outcome of the Siege; in addition, so can other teammate responsibilities offer that. I've seen that recently once where a teammate took the "giving instruction" advice and the Siege outcome was favorable. Siege is a type of server where teammate play should be thought of by all players, so as a RPG MP server, one can use their role as a commander of sorts.

 

And, Ayna, you couldn't possibly mean.......team boat bombing with a balloon, could you?

[Ayna]

Not only that I know about 7 ways to teamkill and avoid autokick/autoban

[Femul_Humun]

It sure sux when you get kicked for it, but it is the risk you accept when you decide to play the big boys league, I'm afraid. It would be too easy to abuse siege weapons by toxic people, the only reason they dont do it at the moment is the fact they will be auto-caught.

[Marek]

 

It sure sux when you get kicked for it, but it is the risk you accept when you decide to play the big boys league, I'm afraid. It would be too easy to abuse siege weapons by toxic people, the only reason they dont do it at the moment is the fact they will be auto-caught.

 

Of course you could argue, that if I don't use those stuff, I don't get kicked, but siege weapons are very effective and in some maps they make ea difference between loss or victoriy. I imagine those setting were put in place to prevent trolls from teamkilling other teammates on purpose, but in the previous weeks there was almost all the time an admin, either playing or in spectators. Furthermore, there are so many ways how to report player (tavern, new topic, pm, discord, steam) so whoever would misuse those siege weapons, he wouldn't be playing on the server for too long.

 

[Femul_Humun]

True but you can already see them screaming 'I didnt mean it, I didnt mean it, I am being oppressed by racist admins!' while slaughtering more and more teammates and giggling all the way across the hills, thinking they defeated the system.

The problem with these griefers is they have no morals, no honour, no integrity. They understand nothing but brute force and they WILL lie and appeal to human kindness in order to abuse it for personal gain. This system as it is works as a deterrent.

 

The way I see it, it would probably be easier to manually unban good people who end up banning themselves, rather than manually banning everyone who abuses it.

[Marek]

Unfortunately, you cannot unban people who have been temporarily banned (neither banned manually nor automatically). Not talking about being kicked in the first place, that means losing all your coins, gear, place in a team you often cannot rejoin while you log in again.

 

Of course there would be always people, who would try to do bad things, but taking into account the state of the game (more than 10 years old), probably not so many completely new people joining in - not talking about the how many % of them have installed the mod.

 

And if they behave poorly, they can be always reported and after 10 mins of searching through the server logs, they can be either banned or moved into watch list. Of course, they can change their nick, but you can see player's ID ingame, or moreover you can check real-time server logs - so you see his IP address. But hey, how many trolls you expect to show up, when you simply remove the auto-kick feature without any loud announcement. Or do you think there would be  a  significant number of current players would change their behaviour and started to teamkill players on purpose?

[Marek]

Server settings must be broken, was just banned straight away with teamkilling just 2 players in total...

[Ayna]

I suggest to make Marek high admin, to let him use admin immunity and enjoy killing teammates. As i remember its far not the first time someone wants to make Marek high admin, so i think this guy rly deserves it

[Marek]

Hi, few weeks passed since I've brought this issue into discussion. Did you get a chance to discuss it internally and is there any outcome that would solve this suggestion?

[Omen]

Or do you think there would be  a  significant number of current players would change their behaviour and started to teamkill players on purpose?

 

I think exactly this.

The the fear of being automatically banned for an hour is a good deterrent and a protection from groups of trolls in case of absence of admins.

The only solution I see is to ask the admin online to reset the TK and kick counter in case of need. 

[hans]

disable admins in siege instead pls

 

btw i am making up the entire feed