16 replies to this topic

[Parzival]

This is just a suggestion and encouragement to discussion, based on the recent talk about a Duel server reform with more intelligent bots: It sometimes quite disappoints me that there is no possibility to use bots for events on the Battle server - the settings just do not allow the implementation of any more than 0 bots. Personally, I think it would bring the opportunity of another interesting event type: battles of player groups who need to cooperate against large bot armies, battles with the users being able to command bots around for strategic purposes etc. etc. Shortly lots of fun admins could create for special rounds to bring a little variety to the ordinary gameplay at times.

 

I have no idea if the absence of bots is hardcoded into the server, but if not I'd like to see it possible to spawn some. So I'd like to know the possibilities concerning this option, and also if you want you can write your opinion on the matter below.

[Skull Of Plums]

I have no idea if the absence of bots is hardcoded into the server, but if not I'd like to see it possible to spawn some. So I'd like to know the possibilities concerning this option, and also if you want you can write your opinion on the matter below.

I highly doubt that,its just something the admins can allow or disable I think.

I support this since its quite fun if done right,there is 1 problem tough. The pathing. If we tried doing this on say,Arena,the AI would go full retard and try to charge the players through the wooden wall and the central stone arena (and obviously get stuck and incredibly easy to kill). Same if we go for any other map,the AI doesn't know where to go unless the mapmaker specifically screws around with it and forces them to (I don't know about this since I never really made maps - if I recall there is some "barrier" object that blocks the AI from going in a way that would cause them to get stuck - I guess this is how sieges in singleplayer work).

So somebody is going to have to go through the hell of M&B Warband map editing in order to make a map for this type of event. Shouldn't be too hard,tough,just a simple,flat field with some hills and some random decoration is needed,and we're good to go.

[Horatius]

"easy to kill" hehehehe i doubt that you can kill them when they are maxed nobody can defeat a bot 

[Skull Of Plums]

"easy to kill" hehehehe i doubt that you can kill them when they are maxed nobody can defeat a bot 

[DaRedViper]

Well there is battle mod in NW where you choose what troop you want to be and it spawns you and 10 bots of the troop you picked. It is called commander battle i think Well it is actually a very fun game (for me atleast) and if we could get AI working fine not retarted (like Skullz said) then i think it would be amazing idea

[KingArthur]

The problem of bots is they need ai meshes and ai barriers on the map, otherwise they remain blocked in scne props. What you're talking about is full invasion mode like the famous mod. Isn't impossible to do but it requires maps made for it and a server with an invasion script. Again same problem...a lot of work. Sure i'll not make it.

[Skull Of Plums]

No scripting needed,we can just set a lot of bots to spawn each round,get us a good map and that's that.

That's at least how they did it on the NW servers.

 

And commander battle aint really possible in WB,I think.

[Bubba_Johnson]

It's funny to command big or little groups of bots, I used to play that a long time ago with a friend at big plain maps, givin them orders selectin them with the number keys and keepin preshed the F1 key to point where to move them, just like in single player...I used to find that funny as hell but as far as I'm concerned they are a little bit useless in maps with too much elements, barriers or walls, where it's relative easy to trick them though they give a decent play at big plain maps with just grass or sand and some trees and rocks dispersed.

Bots are a decent deal when they come in big groups as a massive force, it's like to struggle with a whole bunch of zombies, one zombie it's useless, 50 zombies are brutal

[LizardWizard]

The pathing. If we tried doing this on say,Arena,the AI would go full retard and try to charge the players through the wooden wall and the central stone arena (and obviously get stuck and incredibly easy to kill). Same if we go for any other map,the AI doesn't know where to go unless the mapmaker specifically screws around with it and forces them to (I don't know about this since I never really made maps - if I recall there is some "barrier" object that blocks the AI from going in a way that would cause them to get stuck - I guess this is how sieges in singleplayer work).

What you mean by pathing is 'AI mesh'. That's basically an invisible layer you place on the ground which tells the bots the shortest route to get to a particular point (usually to you).

It's pretty easy to make it on flat field without too many objects.

However, if you want to make the AI mesh in a map filled with objects... cancel everything in your schedule cuz it's gonna take lots of time and it's a pain in di ass.

I don't know if there are other maps with AI mesh we could use but I know I made it for my map "Nord Swag" (battle map) and it worked just fine. Also, Elary's been working on the AI mesh for 'Orro Mine' map (only for duel).

[Parzival]

I think it would still work out on more 'tidy' maps like Desert Duels, as the possibility of bots getting stuck is not so high there, and even if they do, well just kill them or administration can take care of it. This feature should only be implemented to have for events admins want to make on the server, and I primarily thought of Battle here.

 

I have tested on private LAN server long ago such botbattles with commanding as Bubba described; and on most terrains it worked out very well. A typical map for a botwave fight could be e.g. Field by the River, I found it to work pretty well. As I said, this should only be a possibility in certain situations for a quick event. That bots can still fail due to AI problems is not so terrible as admins can avoid or solve these possible defects in event management - first of all also by map choice. I think to unlock bot spawning is worth a try, we can see if events of this kind are possible and later decide if we want to allow it definitely.

[LizardWizard]

I think it would still work out on more 'tidy' maps like Desert Duels, as the possibility of bots getting stuck is not so high there, and even if they do, well just kill them or administration can take care of it.

There is no such thing as bots getting stuck in a map where AI mesh is done completely. Put that to the test if you want. You have everything you need.

It would be a shame to overlook tactical maps like Nord Town just because they are not open. Imo that would make it even more fun.

[Stannis_Baratheon]

thats a really interesting idea... i think that it atleast worth a shot.

[Bubba_Johnson]

So many unemployed people in the world and Talesworlds doesn't hire any person as "Human bots", they prefer to have fool bots that can't jump, that tries to cross walls and that climbs ladders one by one and don't even push siege machines.

We need human bots now! (Just like Teocles)

[Parzival]

Would it possible to activate bot options in admin panel, how do we proceed now?

[Parzival]

I would like us to get to any decision here, be it positive or negative. That would be much better than letting the topic settle dust or be forgotten. If they like, high admins could give some more solid information or opinions on this matter. You see that the issue of bot meshes is a minor one in battle server, using the proper maps and administrating in the right way.

[BlackDeath]

...my opinion, I see only 4 users here supporting the idea, and since for to apply this would need to do a hard job with maps and so, and only for a few players actually... I think this not will be applied, at least by now.

Btw, like with other ideas we had in community, best way is make a public-poll, and depending how much users/players like/want it and vote to apply it, we can decide then have it in mind and what to do in forward, so....

good luck with poll

[DaRedViper]

...my opinion, I see only 4 users here supporting the idea, and since for to apply this would need to do a hard job with maps and so, and only for a few players actually... I think this not will be applied, at least by now.

Btw, like with other ideas we had in community, best way is make a public-poll, and depending how much users/players like/want it and vote to apply it, we can decide then have it in mind and what to do in forward, so....

good luck with poll

yea i think poll is a good idea because i dont think only 4 people would be interested in this idea and not all bother to post just to say they support it