7 replies to this topic

[Kapitan_Pronin]

In order to make sense to play on this map, because it has 1 way and dead zones for firing arrows.(Чтобы был смысл играть на этой карте из-за того. что путь к флагу 1 и есть мертвые зоны с лучниками/арбалетчиками)

http://gifok.net/image/8VAM
http://gifok.net/image/8VAu

May be get balcony and a ladder?(может добавить в этом месте балкон и приставную лестницу?)

http://gifok.net/image/8VAp
http://gifok.net/image/8VAa

It is required to slightly increase the number of shields( чуть больше нужно щитов, т.к. респаунд нападающих гол, и их поливают стрелами с башни и крыши домов)

http://gifok.net/image/8VA6
http://gifok.net/image/8VAm
http://gifok.net/image/8VAB
http://gifok.net/image/8VAK

And eliminate the cheat space, which allows player to make a lot of headshot at the beginning of the game (Increase in this place a fence or lower the ground level) (хотелось бы убрать читерское место, где лучник в начале игры может набить много фрагов на атакующих дверь (повысить уровень забора в этом месте или понизить уровень земли)

http://gifok.net/image/8VAk
http://gifok.net/image/8VAV
http://gifok.net/image/8VAl
http://gifok.net/image/8VAN

These changes could even out the balance of the map. (эти изменения могут улучшить баланс карты)

Thanks (Спасибо)

 

[Lenna]

Could you please provide the map names as well next time? Thanks.
 

Kapitan_Pronin, on 26 Mar 2017 - 4:24 PM, said:

In order to make sense to play on this map, because it has 1 way and dead zones for firing arrows.(Чтобы был смысл играть на этой карте из-за того. что путь к флагу 1 и есть мертвые зоны с лучниками/арбалетчиками)
http://gifok.net/image/8VAM
http://gifok.net/image/8VAu

 
EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION and historical accuracy: Since we are not talking about two separated maps but one (sorry about that, I though Dragon's Nest and Beacons are both being discussed), the first part/image of this post—dealing with the possible ways into the complex—is no longer relevant. As far as the original text and images included, I keep the post untouched, though.
There are actually multiple ways how to get inside, not the only one. You have a choice which one to choose from…
 

 
EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: Since this particular asset is basically the same in both maps, this next part/image stands. The remaining text discusses the correct Beacons map then.
And there are basically multiple spots where you can hide in order to deliver some shoots through that grille-like door… so one have to live with that, I guess…
 

 
 

Kapitan_Pronin, on 26 Mar 2017 - 4:24 PM, said:

May be get balcony and a ladder?(может добавить в этом месте балкон и приставную лестницу?)
http://gifok.net/image/8VAp
http://gifok.net/image/8VAa
It is required to slightly increase the number of shields( чуть больше нужно щитов, т.к. респаунд нападающих гол, и их поливают стрелами с башни и крыши домов)
http://gifok.net/image/8VA6
http://gifok.net/image/8VAm
http://gifok.net/image/8VAB
http://gifok.net/image/8VAK

 
I would agree (to some extent), but, in my opinion, because these are basically minor changes with minimum impact on balance, I do not think it is very cost-effective to spent time to re-edit all the maps and re-upload them on the server…
 

Kapitan_Pronin, on 26 Mar 2017 - 4:24 PM, said:

And eliminate the cheat space, which allows player to make a lot of headshot at the beginning of the game (Increase in this place a fence or lower the ground level) (хотелось бы убрать читерское место, где лучник в начале игры может набить много фрагов на атакующих дверь (повысить уровень забора в этом месте или понизить уровень земли)
http://gifok.net/image/8VAk
http://gifok.net/image/8VAV
http://gifok.net/image/8VAl
http://gifok.net/image/8VAN

 
I do not think this is a cheating/glitching/whatever. You are not hiding in meshes, you are visible to the attackers… and so on. Moreover, there are multiple spots on this map where you can hide and deliver some head shots in order to improve your K/D ratio…
 

 
My opinion.

Edited by Lenna, 27 March 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[BlackDeath]

Info...  @Lenna map is Beacons, not Dragon's Nest

Now is re-edited with suggested (not all were available because map's limits, so ideas for side balcony and so aren't possible (were made but are useless, btw I let as "destroyed scenary"), other were improved.

We will see how is balance now, thanks for suggestions.

 

ps: tomorrow will be active in server with updated Map is updated at server already

Edited by BlackDeath, 27 March 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Lenna]

Sorry for opening the closed topic, but since there has been many edits in it, I hope it can handle one more thought. 

So, if the whole problem—that is/was discussed in this topic and secondarily in tavern as well—is about the map being too OP for the defenders (mainly because of only one entrance to the building where the flag is located), why do not address this problem directly? I mean, theoretically—set some guidelines and standards for map creators (Warband and Bannerlord later) not to put flag inside of certain types of assets and to provide necessary amount of access paths as well and so on, and practically—re-edit the maps.

To be honest, I don't have a problem with this map at all since I play mostly as a defender so just give me ten comrades with shields or two-handed axes and Gandalf will be proud because no one will pass; but this potential "traffic jam situation" might be an issue for some people. All the more so if this map has been put twice into the rotation.
 
Bearing this in mind, there are not actually many maps with flag inside of a roofed building in the current rotation, but there are some—which might be, of course, considered a plus because of diversity. Probably the closest example is the Viking Fjord map that actually contains more than two entrances to the flag inside of the building.
 

 
So, if the current version of the current edit of the Beacons map still consists of only one path to the flag and looks like this…
 

 
… why not just simply add the second entrance to the building and flag in accordance with the Viking Fjord map which has been on the rotation for some time? So the map might look e.g. like this:
 

 
Goal is clear, to split the defender's forces into two streamlines and keep them busy. But since the map has been edited already, take all this just as some final thought.
 
Cheers, Lenna.

[Falcon]

It really needs a second entrance to the keep, Lenna's suggestion for it seems good, right now it's just a meat grinder.

[BlackDeath]

Ideas are good but impossible without re-editing map almost fully, since flag's build has the "half-back-side" OUT of map's limits, so any you do will be blocked by map's size limits, understand? I've tried to open a side way (where you will see a "broken-ladder" in new update), but then I've founded this trouble, so think that map will be like it is, with only few more help for attackers in other ways.

 

About Lenna's said, diversity in maps is good to avoid get bored having same "standars" for flag's places and so... agree?

 

ps: Beacons map have a new "little" update active since just now, and I've let "broken-ladder" for "scenary-purpose" only, since is blocked at half.

 

for who want test in short time, Beacons will be running after 1 + 1/2 hour aprox. in server since just now

Edited by BlackDeath, 30 March 2017 - 12:17 AM.

[Lenna]

BlackDeath, on 30 Mar 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

Ideas are good but impossible without re-editing map almost fully, since flag's build has the "half-back-side" OUT of map's limits, so any you do will be blocked by map's size limits, understand? I've tried to open a side way (where you will see a "broken-ladder" in new update), but then I've founded this trouble, so think that map will be like it is, with only few more help for attackers in other ways.

 
Sure, but it's not about half of the building being out of the map area, it's only about one third being there. Nothing that could not be bypassed or resolved. Nothing is impossible—see the pics. You don't have to edit the whole map .

 

 

 
Anyway. We can probably agree, based on the reactions, that this map is not designed very well since, besides everything what has already been said, it utilizes only small and disproportionate piece of the total map area and some important assets are pushed beyond the original map borders. So, back to the direct theoretical solution and to the setting of guidelines a standards, I would add something like: "Do not erect important assets on map borders in order to provide some additional space for eventual map editing," to the hypothetical list for Warband and Bannerlord as well .
 
EDIT: I should add that all my posts in this topic were meant as the suggestions addressing the mentioned issues, because, as I stated, I didn't have a problem with this map—although I think that the one entrance may be a deal breaker. But since the original poster spent some time making the graphical suggestions, it seemed right to me to gave him at least some concrete feedback.
 
Cheers, Lenna.

Edited by Lenna, 31 March 2017 - 03:33 AM.

[Kapitan_Pronin]

The map has changed - the question: what is the role of the two trebushets on it? Fences do not break down, protective fences on the roof do not break, the tower does not break down - who can be killed from a kilometer?(it fast get autoban). Only one useful action - at the beginning of the round to drive the shooters off the roof (power 22 on roof, 20 to door and 23 Inside the building)