19 replies to this topic

[Marcel]

I am fully supporting Bread's article. - This topic is a reaction to the Bread's topic of Map imbalance and rotation problems -

 

Reaction to:

Everyone hates the following maps

 

 While reading this shit post article which makes sense in only one thing (Two titans is a bad map and so are the others too), I am not even surprised that humanoid as "Adolf" was allowed to be an admin. The arrogance and lack of patience are strong with the admin guild. Please, work on it, you are not supposed to be smart as, as you are trying to be. Get more people to do an admin job, those people would report ideas from the players and they could solve this problem easily. They can do more than remind us to not be the assholes. They will certainly do a great job, I am sure about it.

 

 This reaction type of behavior which BlackDeath shows to us is rather ironic. The forum is not populated by the majority of players who visits the Tg arena server and yet you ask for more people to say they opinion. There is nothing supporting this demand of yours, you cannot force people to force others to say their opinion. There are no rules that are forcing us to do so and you are supposed to solve requests of the people that are here. You are not good at social encounters. You are talking about ways to solve the problem that admins created, but you don't realize that these ways are not possible. If you seriously apply the Art of the war in Mount and blade, you are walking on the wire. Your logic is being countered by the rules and purpose of the server: infantry cannot use the amount factor, this is a death match. And if we are supposed to find "hard to get to" locations, the fun aspect of the game is certainly going to die off. We can't adapt to all of the mistakes which were ignored at the stage of the map creation. BlackDeath, you cannot say that the maps are balanced. They are not and we all know that. Administration removed maps like "Watch your steps" and "Bad banquet" for reasons of being "small"? As I remember the main reason you promote here is to be able to have all types of units. So why does map like "Duel games" have a place in the rotation? There is no real reason to play infantry here as there was no real reason to play cavalry on these maps I mentioned. 

 

 People want to delete these maps but in reality, they will not want to if the maps were balanced. If you are interested in my opinions, you can continue to read this topic and find the true fixation of the maps with the problematic aspects which they have nowadays. If there is anyone who is able to modify the maps and change their features, I ask you to do so. Admins probably won't, but there is a chance that they will allow us to change something that they don't need to.

 

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If you are the admin, the part below is unnecessary for you. 

 

 There was a discussion about bad, balanced, unbalanced and shit maps. I think that the existence of the "rest" points, or as many people would say swimming pools, where people chill and do nothing while waiting for the end of the round speaks for it itself. People are building barricades, not as a defensive wall anymore. They use this tool to be hidden from the unfair conditions that are built by the maps. Two caves, Two titans, Snow village, Duel games, Desert ruins and tbh every single map has this problem. My guess is that people do not want the maps in the way, that they were created for. The community of the TG arena is not built on the kill hunting, yet the majority does so. Do you agree with this? I am entirely sure that most of the forum reading players play here because of the community.

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Map reviews for those who care about the maps

 

I will provide the problem, the reality, and the possible solution/s. These maps are not balanced and I am going to prove it to you!

 

Hint: "Effective" means to have positive KDA without a disadvantage settled by the map only. Please do not share arrogant opinions without a value. 

 

1) On the map "Battle of the Titans" are people literally climbing the hill to be out of the imbalance madness, which is going on the plains area. There are also attempts to create camps under the wooden titan, but these are mostly attacked by the rest of the infantry and they don't stay long. Cavalry and archers are the only units able to be effective on this map without disadvantages. Cavalry is simply rolling on the plains and possibly on the forest area with ease. Archers use mountains, titans, hills, forest, and trees to be safe and able to shoot cavalry and infantry on the plains. These "hard to get to" locations are not a balancing factor, because spawns are everywhere on plains. The map needs to use its name more correctly. Solution? Infantry needs to have an obvious place to fight on. There shall be something in between of these titans. If you build bridges, platforms, roofs or literally anything that will connect these titans, you will get a place for the infantry combat. It will also represent the name of the map in the way that there is a battle of the Titans. Another possible solution is a lot simpler. Use the existing forest. Put a big amount of spawn points into the forest and force the infantry to fight there. It will surely change the stereotype. This map is the most problematic one and there are more reasons to put it out of the rotation than letting it in. 

 

2) "Snow village" is one of these maps, that have been here for a while without a touch. People concentrate on the hills and inside the stables. Some people will not accept this, but it is a fact. Cavalry is in the disadvantage, archers have the dominance and infantry is in the moderate situation, in which they are mostly able to fight cavalry back and they can kill the archers. If there was a simple solution, I would tell it to you. In fact, I would personally suggest to change the location of the hill in the middle and put it further from the stables. It could probably switch its location with the building in the middle. This scenario would create a cover for the cavalry and for the infantry and balance the situation.

 

3) There comes only one word to mind in the case of the "Duel games" and it is a failure. This map had a purpose to be something like the long-lost duel games server. There is nothing good about this map. It is bigger than it needs to be in a manner of cavalry slaughter and "no real sense" fights. More than 50 % of the map is not used and the cavalry is dominant here. Archers mostly stick to the U wall buildings and they snipe everything they see. Infantry is massively underpowered. There is no real sense of playing infantry in an effective way. This map is bad and the only fix is to put it out of the rotation in the time when more maps will be added. 

 

4) "Desert ruins" are actually pretty decent map. The problem lies in the fact that there are literally two fronts and the one is slightly worse than the one with the "house". If you want to make this map super balanced and appropriate to its name, add more ruins onto the desert side and give people more space to camp and fight in melee with it. 

 

5) "Two caves" are literally copy-paste + trees Arena. People keen to hide in the middle circle, where they wait for the end of the match while doing nothing. The map is flat and there are no sensible places where can infantry hide from the cavalry dominance. Archers have a lot of possible locations, but they are killed by infantry that has any single target than the archers (yes, there is infantry that doesn't just camp in the middle, surprised?). This map needs to have a hilly terrain, otherwise, it is disadvantageous for infantry. 

 

6) "Neight slayers" is balanced map and the only problem is in spawn locations. This problem is ignorable due to the problems with other maps. If there were more ruins, or trees, the spawn problem won't exist.

 

7) There is like 3 versions of the name for "Colosseum" so I hope that you know what I refer to. Colosseum has no real problem as a map. The problem is in the "luck" element. If there are people who don't kill the archers on the balcony, the map is imbalanced. If you want to make sure that this scenario won't exist, destroy the possibility of the gate opening. This map is good, no real problem. 

 

8) I didn't want to mention "Frog's lair" at the beginning. It is my favorite map, but people do not like it. I must say that this map is a fine new element of fight ower the tower in the middle. There is a lot of ways to be effective, but in the end, the map is not balanced for the whole community. I have no idea how to fix this map, so I won't request any. 

 

There are also maps "Orro mine" and "The Arena" which are mostly popular. I personally find Arena boring and old. 

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 I am sorry for the long post. There is probably more to say about the maps and I know it. I hope that you won't take this post too seriously and start an argument. It is not my intention. I only want to bring light into Bread's post, which was just too poorly maintained and also to bring some ideas for the old school player, who was listening to others while hunting Nykyns.

 

Thank you for your time, Your Mother_Fucker 

 

[Pêche]

Jesus. My eyes hurt.  

[noodle]

Jesus. My eyes hurt.  

its called dyslexia

[KingArthur]

I never play deathmatch and i prefer to spend the few time i've to play on siege. Arena has some admins assigned but they're inactive. We received many requests to be admin on siege but few on deathmatch. At end there's few to moderate there, no teamkills, no catapult destroyers or path blockers. Only cheaters and heavy chats offenses.

So you can't pretent active efforts on a medium populated server in a 8 years old game.

This doesn't mean we don't care. Titans and duel games will be removed on next server restart.

This said, i suggest you and to all who likes to play on our servers to start to make/edit maps themselfs because admins will have less and less time and, considering bannerlord is still far, you risk to remain stuck with same maps for a long time.

 

 

 

 

[Pêche]

its called dyslexia

I mean.... these colors...   

[Snow Mexican]

One arena map needs to be removed from rotation, and something needs to change on it to make it more enjoyable, its quite boring when legit every new map, someone polls for Arena with Rhodoks and Swadians. It gets so fucking boring when i have to play Arena twice in a row.

[noodle]

 

I never play deathmatch and i prefer to spend the few time i've to play on siege. Arena has some admins assigned but they're inactive. We received many requests to be admin on siege but few on deathmatch. At end there's few to moderate there, no teamkills, no catapult destroyers or path blockers. Only cheaters and heavy chats offenses.

So you can't pretent active efforts on a medium populated server in a 8 years old game.

This doesn't mean we don't care. Titans and duel games will be removed on next server restart.

This said, i suggest you and to all who likes to play on our servers to start to make/edit maps themselfs because admins will have less and less time and, considering bannerlord is still far, you risk to remain stuck with same maps for a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

can you add some other maps to even it out then? Forest hideout needs some love and watch your step and bad banquet arent that good but we could use something fresh

[perpzije*]

Go and try make your own maps rat!

[Livso]

I dont even want to read it lol

[noodle]

I dont even want to read it lol

 

Jesus. My eyes hurt.  

tells a lot about MoB

[Livso]

Ye we are lazy shits

[Marcel]

To all of you, thank you. Every reaction helps us. We, good humen, really care about the game we play. So I will react to every single one if it will be possible. 

 

 

Jesus. My eyes hurt.  

Use letters then.

 

 

 

I never play deathmatch and i prefer to spend the few time i've to play on siege. Arena has some admins assigned but they're inactive. We received many requests to be admin on siege but few on deathmatch. At end there's few to moderate there, no teamkills, no catapult destroyers or path blockers. Only cheaters and heavy chats offenses.

So you can't pretent active efforts on a medium populated server in a 8 years old game.

This doesn't mean we don't care. Titans and duel games will be removed on next server restart.

This said, i suggest you and to all who likes to play on our servers to start to make/edit maps themselfs because admins will have less and less time and, considering bannerlord is still far, you risk to remain stuck with same maps for a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I would sign for this job, but it wouldn't help. We need admins who change rotations, edit maps and so on.. The only job I would manage to do is an info reposting, which I will do in future as I did now.

 

 

One arena map needs to be removed from rotation, and something needs to change on it to make it more enjoyable, its quite boring when legit every new map, someone polls for Arena with Rhodoks and Swadians. It gets so fucking boring when i have to play Arena twice in a row.

This frustration started with the bad maps. People won't just sit and ignore the bad map. They will vote and stupid population always vote for the lesser worse.

 

 

Go and try make your own maps rat!

Read the post again, there is a colon for you too.

 

 

I dont even want to read it lol

You don't need to, it's not aimed at people who can't read. Just sign it at the end like your fee documents. 

[Bread]

I agree with almost everything you said in the original post (especially considering you parroted most of what I said!), but you're still a shitty toxic player.

 

 

 

I never play deathmatch and i prefer to spend the few time i've to play on siege. Arena has some admins assigned but they're inactive. We received many requests to be admin on siege but few on deathmatch. At end there's few to moderate there, no teamkills, no catapult destroyers or path blockers. Only cheaters and heavy chats offenses.

So you can't pretent active efforts on a medium populated server in a 8 years old game.

This doesn't mean we don't care. Titans and duel games will be removed on next server restart.

This said, i suggest you and to all who likes to play on our servers to start to make/edit maps themselfs because admins will have less and less time and, considering bannerlord is still far, you risk to remain stuck with same maps for a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you!

[Highly_Adv_Nob]

One arena map needs to be removed from rotation, and something needs to change on it to make it more enjoyable, its quite boring when legit every new map, someone polls for Arena with Rhodoks and Swadians. It gets so fucking boring when i have to play Arena twice in a row.

Arena is the only map that needs to be in the game.

[Dusan]

First, before i say anything, thank you for spending your time trying to help us.
On arena there are three types of players:

 

1. Normal players. This guys are mostly new players at TG Arena.They are trying to kill every single person on Arena. Theirs main goal is to make best score and to learn fighting.They are playing every class, but i would say 50% inf, 25% cav and archer.

 

2. Most active and old tg players. As you said "people chill and do nothing while waiting for the end of the round speaks for it itself" that is true. But these players have really good skills, but they are playing on arena for long time and they are bored of fighting normal players , arena server is like theirs other home, they just wanna chill out there and talk about some random stuffs. They are building barricades so no one can interrupt them.

 

3. This type of players are combo of first and second type. op players who kills everyone except 'friends(usually 2-5 players in whole server)'. I will take *MiMi* for example. 

 

This is deathmatch bro, there is no rule for killing.. You can kill everyone or you don't need to kill a single person.. it is your choice. 

 

No one can make perfect map for arena, if you make map where archers or cavalry have advantage 2. type of players will be dissatisfied.. If you give advantage to inf, 1. type will be dissatisfied.

 

As BlackDeath said maps are perfectly balanced, and you said that also, look closer(read only yours purple sentence).There is no perfectly balanced map BUT if you look at all maps together, they are perfectly balanced.There is no same maps,on every map a different class has advantage.

SHORTLY My opinion: We do not need to change any map, all we need is to remove some maps from rotation(Let all Arena, Senior and High Admins vote which maps will be removed). 
 

[BlackDeath]

>>> https://community.tr...ge-2#entry26878

[Marcel]

First, before i say anything, thank you for spending your time trying to help us.
On arena there are three types of players:

 

1. Normal players. This guys are mostly new players at TG Arena.They are trying to kill every single person on Arena. Theirs main goal is to make best score and to learn fighting.They are playing every class, but i would say 50% inf, 25% cav and archer.

 

2. Most active and old tg players. As you said "people chill and do nothing while waiting for the end of the round speaks for it itself" that is true. But these players have really good skills, but they are playing on arena for long time and they are bored of fighting normal players , arena server is like theirs other home, they just wanna chill out there and talk about some random stuffs. They are building barricades so no one can interrupt them.

 

3. This type of players are combo of first and second type. op players who kills everyone except 'friends(usually 2-5 players in whole server)'. I will take *MiMi* for example. 

 

This is deathmatch bro, there is no rule for killing.. You can kill everyone or you don't need to kill a single person.. it is your choice. 

 

No one can make perfect map for arena, if you make map where archers or cavalry have advantage 2. type of players will be dissatisfied.. If you give advantage to inf, 1. type will be dissatisfied.

 

As BlackDeath said maps are perfectly balanced, and you said that also, look closer(read only yours purple sentence).There is no perfectly balanced map BUT if you look at all maps together, they are perfectly balanced.There is no same maps,on every map a different class has advantage.

SHORTLY My opinion: We do not need to change any map, all we need is to remove some maps from rotation(Let all Arena, Senior and High Admins vote which maps will be removed). 
 

This is good.

[Adolf]

@Mother_Fucker why u mad bra?

[Mister_Crêpes]

Mother_Fucker (in spanish that word sounds better: "Cabrón"), your first post text reminded me of reading that second hand school book extremely underlined with fluorescent colors that my momma bought from a little poshy girl with brackets to me when i was in sixth grade (we were poor and couldn't afford a new book), I haven't played Warband for a long long time but you can bet that I have read your text because the background was of my interest and liking, not the final feelings I got from reading your text though...

That school book of my sixth grade, by the way, looked like this:

Spoiler

Jokes aside...why I say that I got a negative feeling after reading your long text? Because i detect some pretencious pedantry and it's not because of your dripping prose but because you think you can fix any minimal deviation in a system that contains hundred factors (many of them purely subjective) with your overelaborated and stilted rhetoric forgetting on the way any philosophical concept in this matter, and you are committing a big mistake doing that even if you are too proud to see it and admit it, and now I'll tell you why:

You CAN'T get the perfect balance in ANY existing system, not in a game map, not in a biological organism, not in a political party, not in a human mind, in anything...not even the Mother Nature that is far more perfect that your explanation intent has ever found the perfect balance during millions of years of evolution, so do you think you are some kind of divine holder of the concept of balance and perfection for a pc game that has to be chaotic in certain situations? Aren't wars chaotic and unbalanced many times? It's impossible to satisfy everybody's concept of balance at the same time... simply impossible.

Me at least get lots of fun with some chaos in Arena, though is something that i try to avoid when i look to win the round in Captain server, if i see that my team is in a map with an unbalanced situation against cavalry I try to improvisate and get together with others forming a block, by example... "unbalance" is something circumstantial in this case, not something tangible, is more like a sea of oscillating numbers, trying to avoid fully the "map unbalances" or chaos factor in a round where coordination with other players is crucial to win the round is like Don Quixote trying to defeat the "giants": An uthopy, just imagine trying to achieve that in a server where everybody kills everybody (Deatmatch), because it doesn't matter how "balanced" is the map, chaos factor is always there, always... not because the map could be the most balanced thing on this earth, but because the human mind is more related to chaos than to order, in this world the order is ephemeral, brief and forced, chaos and disorder is constant and pursues the human kind like a shadow, maybe evil has something to do with it but that's for another deep philosophical conversation.

Do you know what Chaos Theory is? Well, if you don't read about it and you will understand that you can't fix maps unbalances and getting close to your personal notion of balance putting a bridge there, a pair of bushes there and some little walls or ruins in the middle, and even if you do it will be just that: a personal notion, but there are hundreds of souls out there playing this game that feel and think different from you.

Welcome to the Chaos World, where achieving objective justice and perfect balance for everybody is like holding the Mediterranean sea with your closed hand.
 

[Mikhail]

I like when ppl rage about ppl staying barricades 

PD: I think new maps like Frog's lair would be nice. Except arena or desert duels u can delete all.