22 replies to this topic

[The_Knight_Who_Says_NI]

Just noticed yesterday that from now on defenders have five lives whatever the map, but didn't see any announce anywhere. Is it here to stay or just a test?

I personally like it.

May be would i suggest  that on some "open maps" it might be too hard for defenders to win and extend it to 7 or something. But time will tell.

[KingArthur]

No, there was a problem with an admin. Our maps aren't designed for 5 lifes.

[Timus_Hawkus]

Well that was an interesting experiment anyway. Obviously 5 is way too low even for pure castle maps. A thing to keep in mind with lives limit though is that it advantages those among the defending team that are playing it safe (archers, people waiting at the top of a ladder, people darting in and out of a fight with a 2h, etc.) versus those who are doing the right thing like trying to stand their ground in a breach. I'm not against the idea of lives limit but you defo get to factor in that it will give players an incentive to act selfishly rather than to play as a team.

[Johnny]

What Will Players Do To Admins And Server Owner If

Defenders Lives is - 1 Only !!!

[Skaffa]

Well that was an interesting experiment anyway. Obviously 5 is way too low even for pure castle maps. A thing to keep in mind with lives limit though is that it advantages those among the defending team that are playing it safe (archers, people waiting at the top of a ladder, people darting in and out of a fight with a 2h, etc.) versus those who are doing the right thing like trying to stand their ground in a breach. I'm not against the idea of lives limit but you defo get to factor in that it will give players an incentive to act selfishly rather than to play as a team.

This exactly. In some maps it becomes like a team deathmatch rather than siege. Defenders should defend and form defensive lines like often done in Minas Tirith map. So giving limited lives actually encourage people to do that rather than ramboing. But 5 lives seems low for some maps, i think something like 7 or 10 would be better.

[KingArthur]

In my opinion limited lifes make defense side too unbalanced on most of maps. When lifes are active i see defenders loose most of times.

[Skaffa]

If i remember correctly, there was a feature in this server while ago that if defenders win the first round, second round they get only 7 lives. That actually made sense and it was a good balance between limitless lifes and limited lifes.

[Dory]

If i remember correctly, there was a feature in this server while ago that if defenders win the first round, second round they get only 7 lives. That actually made sense and it was a good balance between limitless lifes and limited lifes.

I agree. Don`t understand, why cant all maps have enabled auto-lives-limits. For example, default lives-limit is 8, and if def-side loose, then it is goes to unlimit, and if won then goes to 7 or 6. Playing siege(like all other types and games) most joyable when all sides have equal chance to win. 

If one map has rolled nords on def vs mongolians on attack, and nords have 8lives first round, they should win in 95%, and on second round with 6 lives they have approximately 50% chance  to win. But if on this map lives-limit does not work, or they start with unlimit lives, so they will win two rounds in a row and after this 20 minutes of teamdeathmatch map is changed.

[KingArthur]

The automatic lifes system works like this:

1. at end of first round if map is on list for automatic lifes, it goes on next step
2. if playing players are more than 105, if goes on next step
3. if defenders won the first round, it goes on next step
4. if players are between 105 and 130, it sets 8 lifes. If they're 130+, 7 lifes.

I had to create this system because not all maps need limited lifes and factions aren't balanced. I can't enable lifes permanently or when attackers win because for defenders it would be already late. Instead, with this system i guarantee defenders the first round and if they win, lifes are setted to give a better chance to attackers.

By what i hear seems like attackers are so lazy that they want defenders lifes to make all easier. Players forgot the teamwork and the good days when attackers, after loosing first round, said "gg, let's retry" instead of "fucking map/factions unbalanced/this map is impossible, change it".

Lifes isn't only a limitation for who is playing, it's also a limitation for who joins the game after minute 6th when they get 0 lifes and they've to wait several minutes to play.

Tell me the maps on which you think is better to enable lifes because defenders win all times.

[Skaffa]

For me it is more like for enjoyment rather than balance/unbalance. With limited lifes defenders tend to be better at teamwork like forming shield walls, extending the fight, playing more "defensive" and all that shit. So it becomes more intense and looks like we are actually battling eachother lol.

 

With limitless lifes however, half of the team just doing their own thing, ramboing around naked or jumping off from the walls etc. 

[Horatius]

What about 150+ 6 lifes?

 

And maybe 170-180, 5 lifes, not sure about this tho maybe too little

[Dory]

Tell me the maps on which you think is better to enable lifes because defenders win all times.

I cant tell u this, because looking on concrete maps is wrong way, on my opinion.
I will try explain my thoughts.
 
As i said above: best joy experience we have when both teams have closely equal chance to win.( Otherwise one team will
be bored, and another will be angry,sad or bored too.) So, our goal is to make every played map more balanced. What things can affect on this? - Castle, fractions, ratio of good players in each team, lives, round time, time to spawn(actually, i dont know about ability scripts to change this last two, just guess ). Ratio of good players and fractions on map are totally random, we cant handle with them, but they do major effect on balance on every map. Effect from current castle(map) are very less and very depend from that two, so talking about balancing some map has no very big purpose.
Well, we have only last three impacts, that can be using in scripts(i guess) for real-time auto-adjusting control. Idea to change round-time limit is not nice. And idea to change spawning time is very attractive, but need good thinking about it(for example, maybe we can combine it with lives and make lives-limits with 30 sec spawn, and when they go out, every next spawn able after 90 sec). At last, now we have only one available way to make automated control of balance, and it is in lives-limits. And i think, its should be used in every map(and start already with limitation, and then go limitless or lower).

 

Lifes isn't only a limitation for who is playing, it's also a limitation for who joins the game after minute 6th when they get 0 lifes and they've to wait several minutes to play.

Maybe better use some formula like this for joined players: lives_limit_for_joined = (current_time_left/round_time) * current_lives_limit

(with rounding to integer, of course )

[Horatius]

The problem is if you rejoin you can get lifes back if you dont handle that system and spawn time is alr high for defenders making if you make it higher i wont come if it is +30 sec

[Dory]

The problem is if you rejoin you can get lifes back if you dont handle that system and spawn time is alr high for defenders making if you make it higher i wont come if it is +30 sec

Hmm. I thought this script creates some array every map with pair key->value, where key - is unique ID of player, and value - how mach lives he have, so rejoining cant help him.

Without this, yeah, its sucks.

[KingArthur]

Well, you're encountering the problems all modders had with warband several times. I wait bannerlord more for the modding side than other.

[Horatius]

Hmm. I thought this script creates some array every map with pair key->value, where key - is unique ID of player, and value - how mach lives he have, so rejoining cant help him.

Without this, yeah, its sucks.

I thought it didnt work like this cuz if i waste my lifes in few sec then rejoin I will get new lifes cuz i join at 11 minuts or something

[Dory]

Hmm. I thought this script creates some array every map with pair key->value, where key - is unique ID of player, and value - how mach lives he have, so rejoining cant help him.
Without this, yeah, its sucks.

Well, you're encountering the problems all modders had with warband several times. I wait bannerlord more for the modding side than other.

But, how can u explain that the NeoGK mod has feature, that can count teamkills for every player and remember it even if players leave server and then come again? Same logic can be apply for store lives counts for players every map, i think.

[KingArthur]

Dory, listen me...maps are enough balanced. The main problem of this game are the factions which are very unbalanced. You can play around with all the settings you want but a "sarranids vs nords" fight will be always unbalanced.

[Horatius]

But, how can u explain that the NeoGK mod has feature, that can count teamkills for every player and remember it even if players leave server and then come again? Same logic can be apply for store lives counts for players every map, i think.

Doenst work 100% just like teamdamage it fails many times

[BlackDeath]

but a "sarranids vs nords" fight will be always unbalanced.

a think: after many time watching rounds of siege (with all kind of possibilities), I must say (like most of you know already)

that factions or maps aren't more important thing to win...

it's only kind/type of PLAYERS in your team, the principal factor that can make you (and your team) win

 

It's not a norme (or normally it doesn't happens) but I saw win in combinations that you could think that will be lost (like sarranids vs nords >> sarranids won)

 

strategie... teamwork... don't be a hero... don't open to enemy yet, wait until last second... etc.

this are the things that can give you a win, and it always will depend of players