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What should the perfect siege map contain? (+ some tips to make a siege map)

Maps Gameplay Siege Discussion Brainstorm

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27 replies to this topic

#1
Ramses

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Just asking. The map makers and maps get so much grief I’m wondering if people have considered what they want?

#2
KingArthur

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People don't know what they want. Otherwise they would make it themselves.


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#3
Aratar

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People don't know what they want. Otherwise they would make it themselves.

That's a very King Arthur'ish thing to say.

 

Spoiler

 

People know what they want, alright !!1!1!111!


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#4
BlackDeath

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"What you give is what you get"..., and most of players in server give us enough good to get what they have... and they like it.

:rolleyes:


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#5
Ramses

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People are too lazy/busy to make maps, even if they knew how and what they wanted. But in you guys view, what should it have? What’s the top 3 or 5 things a good map needs?

#6
Falcon

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Balance is the main thing for me, which is difficult for mappers to carry out due to the factions being inherently unbalanced.


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#7
BlackDeath

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What’s the top 3 or 5 things a good map needs?

some help...

  1. size: not so big, not so small, medium is better normally
  2. balance: when map is end, play it (mentally ofc) from each ones of teams, attackers and defenders, and thing how could it be from all possible positions in map... and all things about this. Is the more difficult part but most important to get a well balanced map for siege.
  3. form (of full map): square is better than rectangle, with spawns placed not too far in opposite sides of map (thinking about lag)
  4. builds, objects, equipment, forest, etc...  scenary added/placed in map: this is funniest part, but don't make it like a "screenshot of reality", simple and nice maybe perfect at same time and is better to play.
  5. use your "brain as player", not like mapper.

:)


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#8
Livso

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And dont put barricades at the ladder position of the wall,it gets buggy



#9
Pepper

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Some things from the top of my head that I'd keep in mind when making a map:

  1. Avoiding too many invis walls or crazy terrain
  2. Ship spawn only maps are generally chaotic due to trolling
  3. Multiple entrances into the flag room
  4. Avoid siege weapons/archers being too powerful in chokes
  5. Not too long to walk to get into combat
  6. Avoid 'bad spawning' for defenders where attackers are likely to be
  7. Multiple entrances into the castle
  8. Avoid making it easier for the attackers to get behind the defenders, such as cliffs/walls behind the flag which the defenders can't reach without great difficulty
  9. Flag should be in an open(ish) area, preferably easily visible

Just make it interesting though. Loved the idea someone put into a map where the wheel of a windmill was right by a flag, made combat interesting xD or that map where the flag's on a spinning wheel


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#10
Ramses

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Balance is the main thing for me, which is difficult for mappers to carry out due to the factions being inherently unbalanced.

I think disparity in skill between teams is more consequential than the inherent properties of the factions. For example, I think its largely a myth that Sarranids are weaker than Swadians. If they are weaker, it’s because of a bias in the player population pulling them in that direction. Anyway, that’s a different topic.

Quality posts @blackdeath and @Pepper!

One trouble as a potential mapmaker I have is balancing cavalry, archers and infantry. All classes should have something to do, however cavalry shouldn’t necessarily have a lot.

I’m thinking of redesigning a real medieval castle into a siege map. Is it more difficult to make a map with NeoGK mod? Is there a guide somewhere?
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#11
Ramses

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Also, who made or makes maps for Mount&Siege? :)

#12
Merchant

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The perfect map is always the one with a tunnel :)


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Once the Merchnat, Always the Merchnat !


#13
DracoTheDragon

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People are too lazy/busy to make maps, even if they knew how and what they wanted. But in you guys view, what should it have? What’s the top 3 or 5 things a good map needs?

I would love to see a map of just siege weapons on either side of a valley and blasting each other!!!


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#14
BlackDeath

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One trouble as a potential mapmaker I have is balancing cavalry, archers and infantry. All classes should have something to do, however cavalry shouldn’t necessarily have a lot.

some tips:

  • For cavalry: little free space outside for attackers is enough, there cavalry can defend troops moving towards castle, don't forget balance the terrain for both teams. You can have best ideas after play as cavalry in siege in different maps for both teams too.
  • For ranged: if defenders have many covered places over walls, is good add a few elevated points for attackers too, should be balanced also ofc
  • For infantry: they are slow troops, so don't make difficult the access to flag inside castle, and place some of spawns near to flag (a few only)

For all, attackers+defenders: try to put the spawns thinking to avoid spawnkillers if possible.



#15
BlackDeath

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I’m thinking of redesigning a real medieval castle into a siege map. Is it more difficult to make a map with NeoGK mod? Is there a guide somewhere?

Here: https://community.tr...aps-with-neogk/

 

^_^

 

ps: I did a map from one taken from reality, Castle of Manzanares, the problem is that I did it as real that the size is TOO BIG :lol: , and most of times unplayable (with few players in server), so try to avoid my mistake ;)


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#16
DracoTheDragon

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I have seen numerous people complain about maps. Literally each map someone has prob complained about. I always tell them to make a map themselves so others can complain about their maps. The way I look at it and I think Chivs has a similar view. That is, each one has its pros and cons. Play the challenges of each map. I highly doubt if there can be a map made that is going to please everyone!! Its the combined effort of all those that take the time to make the maps for us to play on. This includes the developers as well as skilled map makers from the community!  Its the combinations of all the maps together that complete the game play. I would say they cover everything that is needed. Just have to play the whole, not just the part.  People really need to look at the big picture. Sadly, many do not. I would also like to add that the different play styles def brings things to completion! However, I could do without some of the players making stupid comments about other's game play. Meaning fighting styles and strategies high ping players use. Seems some funky things happen as pings get higher. These idiotic comments usually come from very few and select players. What they have in common is pings usually under 50. 


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#17
BlackDeath

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Its the combinations of all the maps together that complete the game play. I would say they cover everything that is needed. Just have to play the whole, not just the part.  People really need to look at the big picture. Sadly, many do not. 

Well said ;)


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#18
Ramses

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some tips:

  • For cavalry: little free space outside for attackers is enough, there cavalry can defend troops moving towards castle, don't forget balance the terrain for both teams. You can have best ideas after play as cavalry in siege in different maps for both teams too.
  • For ranged: if defenders have many covered places over walls, is good add a few elevated points for attackers too, should be balanced also ofc
  • For infantry: they are slow troops, so don't make difficult the access to flag inside castle, and place some of spawns near to flag (a few only)
For all, attackers+defenders: try to put the spawns thinking to avoid spawnkillers if possible.

Thank you for the tips and the link! I’ll skim through it later:)

I’ll keep in mind the problem with rl castles. I’m planning to use the original architecture of the castle but adding fortifications, barricades and structures to balance it in a mp setting. I’m planning to make it rather simple however, as this would be my first map.

@Draco Aye the abuse directed at map makers is most of the time annoying and stupid. We shouldn’t forget however the importance of good maps - I often times find myself quitting because of a bad map, whereas a good map will make me stay just a little longer. Viral servers such as Mount&Siege need a constant flow of new and varied maps, as they vastly improve the experience of returning players. Hopefully the best maps stay forever, while the mediocre and bad are slowly but surely weeded out.

#19
BlackDeath

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Viral servers such as Mount&Siege need a constant flow of new and varied maps, as they vastly improve the experience of returning players. Hopefully the best maps stay forever, while the mediocre and bad are slowly but surely weeded out.

Well about this, our siege server has +60 maps actually in >>> rotation (we have much more, but not all are enough good/balanced/etc.), and we keep changing the rotation's order after some weeks played.

So I think that we have enough with this.

 

But this don't stop us to looking for new+good maps, so take your time to make yours, and when you end it (joking, a map never ends :D ) send to us to check it for troubles, bugs, improve, etc. before add to server, if you give us permission ofc :)

 

ps: I've changed the topic's title (+pinned), to show it better with all posted, maybe help others thinking to make maps :)


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#20
Ramses

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More is usually better and a new map is also an opportunity to remove an old one (Hint - Crécy? ;) ).

Thanks for the help! I’m going to ask for playtesters so that would be much appreciated (I still have the link to TG discord) :)



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Maps, Gameplay, Siege, Discussion, Brainstorm

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