69 replies to this topic

[KingArthur]

@Potato, i agree, it's better than lifes. Not easy to do on warband.

[White_Potato]

@Potato, i agree, it's better than lifes. Not easy to do on warband.

 

i will add also this:

 

limiting anything based on last round result is like punishing someone (people could play very well so server punished them with less lifes in next round).

 

any limits (gold,   lifes,   % in faction,   respawn time,  respawn distance to the flag)  should be based on longer term stats.

 

1st example:  nords win 80% of all their games when ther are in defence, it means faction is overpowered by devs, it means script has to punish them with -500 gold.

2nd example:  on Wine Castle map defenders win in 90% of the games,  it means mapper made cool looking map but very unbalanced,  it means Script has to change from 50/50  to 40/60  %.

 

maybe it will be possible with Bannerlord. 

[Horatius]

@KA can we make a live graph with the amount of players? So we just get the results of how many players played at that minut on that day. Would be fun to see when the most players play and which days, only needs to update like once a minut or something?

We could eventually add in the graph when a map changed and to which map, some advanced stats would be fun .

 

This can all be website side as the stats are already displayed on front page but not saved.

[BlackDeath]

A thing: with Madmin mod is possible, but with neogk I ask...  is possible swap full teams after each/some round? I saw time ago in another server, was nice and funny too, but don't remember name of server,

I mean as an admin's option to give a chance for players that couldn't win in some unbalanced map (at least to try do same good job that winners? ) (the swap's option will be for any team/faction for any side)

[BlackDeath]

@KA can we make a live graph with the amount of players?

In Dashboard there are a graphic for that, normally is same for all days, data of this is from just now (the last hour has low level or zero because is not updated still):

 

 daily players.jpg   32.61KB   0 downloads

[Horatius]

A thing: with Madmin mod is possible, but with neogk I ask...  is possible swap full teams after each/some round? I saw time ago in another server, was nice and funny too, but don't remember name of server,
I mean as an admin's option to give a chance for players that couldn't win in some unbalanced map (at least to try do same good job that winners? ) (the swap's option will be for any team/faction for any side)

We have a beta feature for this, but the problem is when a player gets switched he gets +1 deaths.

[BlackDeath]

We have a beta feature for this, but the problem is when a player gets switched he gets +1 deaths.

well, this shouldn't be a problem if all players gets same at same time

[Horatius]

well, this shouldn't be a problem if all players gets same at same time

It is as your k.d gets fucked up and you lose money.....

[GrafBlade]

A thing: with Madmin mod is possible, but with neogk I ask...  is possible swap full teams after each/some round? I saw time ago in another server, was nice and funny too, but don't remember name of server,

I mean as an admin's option to give a chance for players that couldn't win in some unbalanced map (at least to try do same good job that winners? ) (the swap's option will be for any team/faction for any side)

 

The Server was called Wolfpack_Siege and was the mostly used Native Server til late 2014. They did a full team swap after each round, but without an extra death count if I recall correctly and only the players swapped, not the factions.

 

This feature actually is one I REALLY like cuz it (almost) stopps certain people to always play defender ^^ and is making the game less monotonous as you play both attacker and defender on one map

instead of e.g. pushing til the absolut end without any outcome for 2 rounds as attacker xD

 

Could also help testing maps in terms of balance as you'll have the (almost) same teams playing once on each side, so if you e.g. have a strong defender team in the 1st round winning easily, you'll be able

to check how this strong team will perform as attacker in the 2nd round.

[White_Potato]

@GrafBlade 

Yes, players can abuse OP factions or sides  without this "swap" script.  

Unfortunately, as i know, our NeoGK has a problem with this kind of a scripts.

[KingArthur]

Yes, the problem is neogk binds some player slots to store data. The other problem is if we enable this team swap, what happens with limited lifes activated on second round ? One team will always play without lifes. And i can't disable this limited lifes because with many layers some maps are impossible.

[GrafBlade]

Yes, the problem is neogk binds some player slots to store data. The other problem is if we enable this team swap, what happens with limited lifes activated on second round ? One team will always play without lifes. And i can't disable this limited lifes because with many layers some maps are impossible.

 

Indeed, that's a valid point. I'm not familiar with the behind-the-scene functions of NeoGK-mod, but as you e.g. have scripts adjusting the gold amount on some maps/factions, it should be possible to enable the team swap

if you test new maps, cuz I remember that they are usually tested without lifes in general. Or are lifes mandatory on each 2nd round for every map now (taken that defenders win 1st round)?

[BlackDeath]

what happens with limited lifes activated on second round ?

 

I mean as an admin's option

As I said... I had this option in mind as "enable by admins" only, so they could know when is better to apply, like something different only for situations really unbalanced for some team (a last chance for them), and yes I mean for teams (players) only (like happened in Wolfpack's - thanks for name -), not for the factions. I know restrictions because NeoGK, but would be nice if possible...

[GrafBlade]

As I said... I had this option in mind as "enable by admins" only, so they could know when is better to apply, like something different only for situations really unbalanced for some team (a last chance for them), and yes I mean for teams (players) only (like happened in Wolfpack's - thanks for name -), not for the factions. I know restrictions because NeoGK, but would be nice if possible...

 

Yes, this exactly is what admins were able to do with Wolfpack_Admin_Mod. The mod implemented an option in the admin panel that allowed up to 8 lifes (or unlimited) for defenders. This made it possible to react, even during rounds, just like you suggested.

[Remono]

In addition I have rarely seen defenders really using up all their lives to a poin where it gets easier for attackers

[BlackDeath]

Info: We have some maps re-edited and will be updated tonight (late hours) more info >>> here:

 

• Peak of Interest
• Sykarnom
• Winter Castle
• Khirin Castle
• Rudkhan
• Helm's Deep
• Wine Castle
• Motte and Bailey 2
• Beach Defence
• Nord Hill Fort
• Beacons
• Nomad Camp
• Tonbridge

______________________

• OverSeers Post <<< also this will be moved from rotation by now

[KingArthur]

@Remono, you've to consider that the players who join in the middle of round gets few or 0 lifes.

[Lenna]

Maybe a little bit late but do you really consider swapping players after certain rounds to be eventually applied in siege now / in the future? I remember when you tested the variation of this kind of script on your server and lots of the swapped players simply went spec, waited for a while and then joined back their original preferred before-swapping side. Some people will just never defend or attack because they prefer a certain role which suits them more. And if you manage to forbid this swapping-back scenario within the script in order to force players to play for a certain side, you may basically ruin the fun from the game for them since lots of players would expect choosing side to be some kind of "fundamental right"—without assessing whether this expectation is valid or invalid—or at least to be something which is part of the general role-playing. Don't get me wrong, it's your server, so do whatever you want, but I just wanted to mention this.  
 
Regarding the statistics and solutions, I've witnessed (you probably too) a lot of rounds when the defending Khergits won against attacking Nords just because a lot of good players went to defend, so I would say it's more like about (to some extent) who defends and not how many defend (referring to the 40/60 solution mentioned above). Personally, I find the defending on a map which isn't very defending-friendly to be more challenging or tempting sometimes. Therefore, I don't find the eventual loss to be frustrating that much or to be problem at all as long as the map itself remains entertaining. Therefore, win/loss ratio != joy/bitterness ratio.
 
Life limitation may contain a similar problem. It may be considered to be unfair (and it often is, considering the in-game chat) because you always treat two sides differently; not mentioning the limitations and problems that have been stated in previous posts.
 
Better use the general editing of maps and characteristics of the factions to help to improve the balance rather then do some swapping or limiting scenarios which may be deceptive sometimes. Something like this:
 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Or rather something else…
 
Again, your server, do whatever you want. I just wanted to mention this.

[BlackDeath]

@Lenna you are right...  we must think that

[KingArthur]

@Lenna, unfortunately it isn't so easy. Some maps with 140+ players and nords or swadia defending are quite impossible to win for attackers. And we can't balance a map thinking to 120+ players or it becomes too easy with 70-80 players.

The edit you made to that map is bad because ruins the cavalry fight inside. That map is easy to defend if players defend the gatehouse. Players don't do teamwork and they don't focus on importat targets. This is really bad, specially on bannerlord. Imagine on bannerlord players don't use balistas to destroy the siege ram like on vesin, gates falling in few minutes and the maps become a deadmatch around flag all the times. I hope taleworlds considered these things.